Al Jezeera TV Interview in Vilnius, Litouwen, met Vytautas Landsbergis 31 maart 2014

Vytautas Landsbergis is the first president after Lithuania declared its independence from the Soviet Union back in 1990. Now he is a Member of the European Parliament. He joined us from Vilnius, Lithuania.

Mr. President, thank you for being with us. I want to play more of what the Secretary of State said. Take a listen.

J. Kerry: The US and Russia have differences of the opinion about the events that led to this [Ukraine] crisis. But most of us recognize the importance of finding a diplomatic solution and of simultaneously meeting the need of Ukrainian people

Mr. President, thank you once more for being with us this morning. But with this backdrop, are you optimistic that the solution of this diplomatic crisis can be found?

V.L.: I am not very optimistic. My greatest concern is evident frustration of the West and their apparent weakness being unprepared for such an unexpected and fundamental attack against the UN-type World order. The UN Charter with all its principles lies in trash and nobody asks openly: Mr. Putin, is this your true decision to leave the United Nations? Is your illegitimate government of Russia also for that?

You say it is weakness. What exactly is the weakness identified. Who is weak?

I see that there is a lack of consistency. If Russia is an aggressor and annexator, it is not properly taken. There are now negotiations going on how to accept what has been done.

I want to be sure that I have heard what you are saying correctly. You believe that the United Nations should act to kick Russia out of the UN?

It would be normal not to kick, but to state that by such a decision and action Russia stays outside the United Nations. It is decision of Russia itself. Nobody is kicking them out - they went out.

So, what do you believe – this is the question that everybody seems to be asking – what do you believe Putin’s game to be, what indeed he wants?

V.L.: What he wants, it is better to ask him or them. Now they are again giving promises to stop with further invasion, but who can trust them anymore? Just see, how they are involving the opponent in conditionalities that mean that Russia’s promises are of zero value, indeed. They simply are using this chance to get the right of force majeure to dictate all Europe until it agrees to it and continues to live in the shadow of an exciting strategic partner or bed-fellow, the putinist Russia.

So what do you think the United States and West needs to do to stop Russian aggression, if that is what you think it is?

I would like to see more consistency in the policies of both the Europeans and the United States, because the first reaction was strong and clear. And now Russian diplomacy succeeded to involve into talks about secondary issues, which are unproved allegations against the Ukrainians that Ukraine is in war against Russia. It is nonsense – Russia is in war against Ukraine. The independence-seeking Ukraine was attacked, Ukraine did not attack Russia.

Mr. President, play a little bit what Russian president had to say. He all along has been accusing the West of supporting coup d’etat by fascist, defending the annexation of Crimea. Listen to what he said to that joint session of the Russian parliament. Just for a second.

I remember very well the explanations given by the Russian president about two years ago in an open interview to the nation when a boy asked him: Mr. President, in our class two boys often fight. Who of them is guilty? And the president gave a lesson to the whole world: the one who was beaten he is guilty. So now the Ukrainians are beaten, therefore they are guilty. Anybody in Europe may be beaten and guilty.

Fifty thousand troops are now at the Ukrainian border. The Russian president is quaranteeing the West that this is a military exercise, that he has no intentions of invading Ukraine. Do you believe him?

They used to say the same words before, which have not been fulfilled. So, who wants to believe them, may believe and be misguided and confused once again. Mr. Putin underlined…

Let me use accurate manner. Do you believe Russian president is lying when he says he has no intentions to invade Ukraine with those fifty thousand troops employed at the border of Ukraine?

Russian politicians, even of the highest rank, are accomodated to lie in a very easy manner. I remember when it was openly said to president Medvedev by the French minister B. Kouchner /surely, by N. Sarkozy/: Mr. President, you should not be a liar. You have promised to withdraw your troops from Georgia. But now you do nothing. Don’t be a liar!

There were open words in the press.

But are you, Mr. President Vytautas Landsbergis, saying that Russian president Vladimir Putin is lying when he says: those troops that are on the border are not part of any incursion, but simply there for military exercises? Yes or no?

I am sure that he keeps for himself many options, also to step forward and become a liar, but for the “highest” goals.

Is this personal pain for you to watch what is happening in Ukraine after knowing what happened in Lithuania?

It is not yet in Lithuania, however, every neighbour of Russia may expect the same, as the program of the restoration of the empire was proclaimed years ago.

So, you believe that what he said when he said the darkest moment in Russian history was the breakup of the Soviet empire? You believe that he wants now brick by brick, block by block to put that empire back together?

Mr. Putin said at the very beginning of his president’s career: do not compare me with Gorbachev. He dissolved and lost the Soviet Union, I will collect them back. These are his words, a quotation.

Defending the annexation of Crimea the Russian president said that he is supporting Russian-speaking people in the region and calling the people that they overthrew the coup d’etat government in Ukraine. Listen what he said. So where do you stand on the issue of Russia protecting Russian in the region?

The Russians in the region are not attacked, they are not oppressed and do not need this defense and protection. In Eastern Ukraine there are sent many petitions of Russians to the Russian president: we are Russians, but, please, don’t protect us! – Listen to it.

But I want to make sure we have this scrap before we go. Your message to the West – to President Obama, to the European Union, to the United Nations would be: do not trust Vladimir Putin or take him at his word.

Indeed, so, because he was confusing all of them so many times. And nobody can say that finally he is a sincere and fair person.

Vytautas Landsbergis is the first president after Lithuania declared its independence from the Soviet Union. He is now a Member of the European Parliament. Mr. President, thank you for being with us this morning.

Thank you very much for this opportunity.

2014.04.07